Thanks for above info. I was seriously considering purchasing such a diamond ring. Now I will investigate further.

Can you recommend any sites that I could check for super ideal cut diamonds at good prices

John,

Sure, and thanks for asking!

3 great websites to check out are www.diamondtalk.com, www.pricescope.com, and www.diamondreview.com.

These websites are open diamond discussion groups in cyberspace, that are accessed by thousands of consumers and industry experts.

You will get honest and accurate information there.

With just a bit of homework you can find some really reputable companies that sell Super-Ideal cut diamond which are of better quality and brilliance than the Hearts & Fire brand, with much more information to back up the rhetoric...AND AT SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER PRICES.

I have nothing against the Hearts on Fire Diamond brand. These are indeed very nice stones. They are simply not worth the money, marketing, and hype, when there are more brilliant and better cut diamonds out there for much less money.

I wish you the best of luck!

Judah

Not just the "romantic fluff"? Are you kidding? What are diamonds if not romantic. It's amazing how much people in the business suck the romance...the symbolism...the meaning out of diamonds. Wanna' know who's in it for the buck? It's the people who try to "quantify" a diamond.

Please, tell me how many times you've sat with Glenn Rothman and his wife Susan...the founder's of the company. Did he start it to make money? Of course...that's business. Did he tap into the reality of why people buy diamonds in the first place? You bet. And that's why they deserve the success they achieved. (They also happen to be very nice, sincere people.)

I'm in "the business" and we sell Hearts On Fire Diamonds and they are worth every penny. Not just because they are visually stunning...but because of the choices Hearts On Fire makes from the mine to the jewelers showcase. Always top shelf. Always. Never, ever, ever deviate. (And I'm not just talking about the proportions and polish and everything else folks in "the trade" keep running to. I mean EVERYTHING...from the presentation boxes...the designs...and mostly the people at Hearts On Fire.)

I'm not even sure why I'm writing. I buy regular goods from people who bash Hearts On Fire at every turn. And...it's all about the money with them. (Who do you work for Judah?) Always...it's the money. Just once I'd like them to say, "Our diamonds will make her feel like the most important woman on earth. Why? Because...(place compelling realities here.)" Won't happen though. I've been at it long enough to know that it's much easier to argue crown angles and symmetry.

Lastly...quit talking about the money investment...hype...marketing...etc. You make it sound like Hearts On Fire is different than any other company working for a profit. It is part of every business model...it's a choice...and REAL products stand up to the investment. (REAL meaning it delivers on the promise. Not just rhetoric...but delivers year after year, after year, after year. If it didn't...they wouldn't have much money to put into marketing now would they?)

Something tells me that "Excel Diamonds" has an investment in this website. Is it part of some marketing scheme? Are you putting money into marketing efforts? Does that money come from profits on the diamonds you sell? Of course. Is it wrong? No. It's entirely ethical and expected.

In the end...diamonds are purchased as a symbol and expression from one person to another. They speak. This is merely an opinion from someone on the inside who wishes not to ruffle feathers...but to defend a company and a brand that takes the high road...and delivers a diamond that is worth MORE than what people pay. You can argue all you want about that...but I've seen it on the faces of people that buy them. They are happy. And so are we. Seems like a nice deal to me.

AK

PS--Why do so many diamond houses feel the need to label their diamonds "Super Ideal" anyway? No need to answer...mostly rhetorical. It just bugs me. Does such a diamond command a higher price than an Ideal Cut? It's like when jewelers used to use the AAA, AA, A color grading scale. I can see it now:

Jeweler A: "Mine is an Ideal Cut."


Website B: "Our's are Super Ideal Cut!" (Please certificate to prove it. First spend hours researching so you'll know that our proof is trustworthy.)


Website C: "Our's is actually a Super Ideal Plus!" (Please see our online demonstration that proves our claim. Oh yeah...don't believe everything you read.)

And so on. (Don't even get me started about buying online. I doubt we'll have many readers anyway, Judah. Something tells me it's just you and me.) Hope I didn't come off too strong. Good natured debate and all that...have a nice night.

Andy,

You did not "come on too strong" at all.

I appreciate and respect your lengthy and compelling posting.

A few comments and corrections might be in order though, just so that you know we are not arguing here:

1. Nobody is "bashing" Hearts on Fire. Indeed their success is a testament to their thriving business model. In a separate blog, I made it very clear that Hearts on Fire diamonds are beautiful and that their incredibly high prices are not too high for those who are willing to pay the premium for these stones. Entry is here: http://www.diamondvues.com/2007/02/are_hearts_on_fire_diamonds_wo.html

2. I was simply pointing to the well documented fact that there are ideal cut diamonds being sold on the market that are just as beautiful (and some times even more beautiful and more precisely cut) as any Hearts on Fire branded diamond FOR A FRACTION OF THE COST of a HOF stone.

You know this as well as I do, and so does any consumer who bothers to do a little bit of research.

3. Does that mean that someone who knows this and still opts for a Hearts on Fire diamond has been 'ripped off'?

Of course not!

G-d knows that there is a tremendous relationship between emotional/psychological and practical/rational considerations when making a purchase of this magnitude.

This is not a loaf of bread or a bottle of milk the consumer is buying...and many people will still opt for the psychological/emotional over the practical/rational.

This is completely subjective and personal and there is no bad decision.

Finally, I agree that selling Hearts on Fire diamonds is a 'good deal'.

You client is happy with the diamond....and you are positively thrilled with your HUGE profit margin!!...;-)

Certainly nothing wrong with that and I am happy for you.

Thanks for a great post and I wish you every success and good luck.

Kindest,

Judah

OK...it's been a while. Just had to revisit. Small comment...my Hearts On Fire customer's are not just happy with their HOF diamonds...they are proud, thrilled, excited, thankful...all of it. And these feelings have "legs."

They have legs preisely BECAUSE they are cut by Hearts On Fire.

Some people don't get it...or want it...some do. Neither here nor there. It's a silly debate in the end. Value (and beauty) are in the eye of the beholder. Let them decide...

ak

PS--I'll thank you to lay off the "you are positively thrilled with your HUGE profit margin!!" comments. You don't know me or my business. If you did...you wouldn't write things like that.

Oh...sorry...one more question that was sort of tucked in my first email: Who do you work for? It matters because your opinion will most definitely reflect the realities of your work place. Do you work for Excel Diamonds...or any other diamond house? Niether of us are unbiased...but I think anyone reading this should understand where each side is coming from.
(I haven't researched the site...so you may address this elsewhere...but it looks like you are putting yourself "out there" as some sort of unbiased diamond guru. Are you?)

Andy,

Nobody is debating "value" as perceived by the consumer.

Additionally, as I have mentioned too many times to count at this point, nobody is debating the beauty of Hearts on Fire Diamonds.

I may not know your business Andy, but being in the trade, we are all quite familiar with Hearts on Fire's pricing policies and pricing structure for their Authorized retailers and for their loose diamonds and jewelry.

It is a well known and established FACT, that their diamonds command a HUGE PREMIUM over any similar or better cut quality stone without the name. Somebody is keeping those profits...no??

We are quite transparent re: our "day jobs."

Our connection to Excel is well established here and elsewhere.

This blog is exactly what it was intended to be; namely a pulse on the diamond and jewelry marketplace.

Nobody is disparaging the Hearts on Fire diamond brand.....EXCEPT to simply point out some well known and established facts re: its pricing in relation to similar and/or better cut quality diamonds.

I am not going to make this point again.

This is blog worthy material related to our industry just like anything else we post to this venue. That is our "bias". Namely; to post information of substance and interest related to all things diamonds and jewelry.

We spread love to many companies selling diamonds and jewelry with tributes and articles. We also talk about trends and fashion ideas related to precious metals and our marketplace. We cover watches, pens, and other luxury items....and yes, we are experts with over 40 years in the diamond and jewelry trade.

Again, I wish you all the best in your business etc.

Regards,

Anyone know how I could sell my .322 Hearts on Fire diamond engagement ring??? I bought it for $2,000.00, but I'd like to sell it for around a thousand, maybe... Any suggestions?

Last Christmas my husband presented me with a Hearts on Fire cross pendant. It consisted of 6 diamonds totalling about .5 carats set into 18k white gold and was on a very, very thin chain. It was indeed pretty. Then, I openned the credit card bill and saw that he paid $1900 for it. Not knowing anything about "Hearts on Fire", but knowing the jewelry stote it came from was high end, I figured he spent about $600. When I saw the actual price I took it back. I know I'm terrific. I don't need overpriced jewelry to make me feel good about myself. I think it is a ripoff. They can't give HOF away on eBay for even 50% of retail. In fact I saw the same necklace sell for $700 last month on eBay. I don't know, blame it on the MBA, but I want more than fluff for my buck.

Hi,
I don't know alot about diamonds but what I do know is that I personally have had no better dealings than with the Hearts On Fire team and Rogers Jewelers.
Hearts on Fire doesn't just sell a beautifully cut diamond they sell their word! I would trust Hearts on Fire with my grandchildren! I have several pieces of HOF and I honestly would not want any other diamond or jeweler than Rogers Jewelers. I don't work for either company but I am pleased and proud to say that my husband has very good taste and HOF is toooo be trusted in every aspect of business!!
If you are shopping for a lifetime product (and a diamond is!) Then, HOF is the diamond to buy and Rogers Jewelers is the place to buy it!
Thank You all for reading and I hope this helps someone who is looking to buy a diamond.

Hello: Well there is a lot to say about HOF or about diamonds in general, like the there is a lot of information on cars. Now I got a HOF ring for my fiancé last March form Christian Bernard in VA. It is what we were looking for almost 1 karat,18k Yellow band with the base of platinum, etc. Our wedding is this May so last week we went to the store once again, but this time to place the order for our wedding bands, the matching ones. I’m getting 2 for her to complete her ring and mine all are platinum with 18k yellow gold. The total deal it’s about $ 12,000.00, but honestly I got no doubt that it’s worth it. My personal opinion it’s that having a HOF it’s like having a BMW most of the people that have one, will know their value, the personal connection and luxury that you get went you buy one of this two things. Thanks for the opportunity. Best Regards.

I know this is ridiculous to start thinking, searching and comparing for diamond, but more than enything else is if you decided to buy it. I never had a diamond ring in my life and never had an engagement ring especially. Anyway, two weeks ago my boyfriend took me to one of his neighborhood Jewelry Store to look for one and we obviously run into HOF which I did pick out the one I like (look good to my eyes!). We then one week after that stoped by at my neighborhood Jewelry Store to check it out for the different. After seeing and puting the HOF, I don't know I can live with others. I think my boyfriend is already spoil me. I know the big different is fifteen thousand and around four thousand dollars is what I am going to get this Valentine's Day. Maybe I don't get any, who knows? I just wanted to let you know that it's so hard for me to settle down for less since I taste the HOF. In my opinion, if I have to be totally broke for a while with my own money, I still would love to wear one with HOF. Don't laugh on me! :) Wish me luck!!!

It seems that with HOF the additional markup is more peace of mind that you have a good product than quality. I recently had a look at a Leo and HOF, which were both very beautiful but it seemed that the HOF had the edge. Since I now realize that I can find similar quality diamonds but for a cheaper price I would like to know what are other brand can match up with the HOF. Popular opinion is that the a cut above (hearts and arrows) diamond is a good opponent. I would really like to see this diamond with my own eyes but I don't know what physical store has them. I know I can find them on whiteflash but I only truly trust what my eyes see in person. Lastly is it true that the GIA and AGS are the leading grading lab/company with AGS being the front runner?

Chad,
You pose a good question on what rivals HOF for a more realistic price. You should check out Cut By Tolkowsky. It is an ideal cut hearts and arrows diamond from the family that invented the ideal round stone. If you google Marcel Tolkowsky, you will read that he created the formula that the industry uses today. I don't know where you live, but I have seen it before and it looks amazing. I actually purchased a pendant for my wife. The piece of jewelry comes with a certificate of authenticity and tells me what the initial rough diamond weighed before it was polished. I looked at HOF. The stones are exactly the same in appearance and Tolkowsky was MUCH MUCH cheaper and the mounting was much better quality. It is truly an amazing and REAL story as opposed to the HOF gimmick. Hope this helps!

Hello

I'm am planning on purchasing a HOF diamond and I wanted to know how well HOF retains their values. I am still undecided to whether I want to go with a HOF or something else. I'm looking into a 1carat diamond for about 12k , anyone know if these diamonds are negotiable ? The dealer says no.

Ken

Just a few things fellas. As far as diamonds being better cut than a Hearts On Fire, is just untrue, thats why only they can say "The worlds most perfectly cut diamond." That had to go through the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT(FTC) to be true, demonstrably true. Yes they cost more. Take a look at the paragraph on an AGS report. Hearts On Fire are just the best of the best, and if you do real reaserch on a hearts and arrows or tolkowsky ideal, or AGS 000, you will see that there is a margin of error in how the diamond is cut. A tolkowsky ideal has a range of parameters as far as cut is concerned, nothing exact like a HOF diamond.

There is no negotiation on HOF diamonds either. They are the same price worldwide(that simplifies things really)and nobody gets a better deal. The real thing that bugs me about all these blogs is that not everyone here is telling the truth. You don't have to by a HOF diamond, or any other diamond out there, just by the one that you like most. Just like it was said before, diamonds are an expression of love. You decide how to express it, you can get the best of the best, or settle for less. If you are bothered by price and think that you don't deserve it, then don't get it, or return it. It REALLY is that simple. As far as posting information of "substance and interest", I am interested at the lack of substance. You can have other well cut diamonds, just like you can have other well made cars. But the difference between a chevy sedan and a BMW sedan, well....... When you look for something special you always find it. My only real protest are some of the lies that have been posted here in order to sell a lower quality product. Whoever reads this, please make an educated choice, try to weed out any lies, and express your love because that is what this is all about.

Billy,

With all due respect, your arguments here lack in substance and are factually incorrect.

Hearts on Fire's trademarked term of being "The World's Most Perfectly Cut Diamond" DOES NOT PRECLUDE any other company from creating an EQUALLY precise and beautiful diamond at a fraction of the price.

What it does do, is it precludes other companies from being able to USE THE SAME (trademarked) TERM to describe their own diamonds.

This is the plain and simple truth.

Insofar a your other comments; I agree that ultimately a consumer should buy whatever they love.

Thanks for chiming in.

Judah,

Good point, however, nobody has the same technology that Hearts On Fire has. While others can try, they can't really do the same. So a Hearts On Fire diamond has no real equal. That is a simple fact. And they have to be able to demonstrate that they have something special in their cutting in order to be the only ones to claim the most perfect cut. And also, the industry has challenged HOF(people like yourself Judah)3 times in court, needing proof for the claim. HOF won every time. I have seen really well cut diamonds, but the better the cut, the closer the price to a Hearts on Fire it became. Really there isn't a huge difference in price from a HOF diamond and a well cut(AGS 000)diamond. And please, nothing so far said by me is factually incorrect. And for a fraction of the cost means what. What is the fraction(9/10 the cost??). Even a bad diamond is going cost you a lot of money. It is true that other diamonds come close to what a HOF diamond is, but never an equal. I need to see an excel diamond for myself though. I eagerly await you response. ;)

Billy,

There is no such brand as an "Excel Diamond"...wink, wink back at you..;-). Thus, I encourage you to find ANY "branded" or unbranded Ideal Cut diamond that conforms to the industry definition for a true Ideal cut diamond (GIA EX/EX H&A, AGS000) and you will have a stone that is no less "ideal" than a HOF diamond.

That is after all the entire point of the numerous postings here (and not just my own).

Namely, the indisputable fact that nobody has a "patent" on cutting a true ideal cut diamond and ACCORDING TO ITS INDUSTRY APPLIED DEFINITION.

Your HOF talking points about the "Rolls Royce machine" which they presumably use to cut their stones at a gazzilion magnification..blah blah blah.. is of NO VISUAL consequence and/or benefit to the consumer over an equally beautiful Ideal cut diamond.

You may still vouch for the HOF based upon (valuable) psychological and emotional factors. As I have said many times on this thread; people who would willingly pay a huge premium for a diamond (any diamond) based upon emotion, are no less vindicated than the people who would be influenced differently.

However, since it seems to me that you are in the trade (based on your dissertation and your lock step dissemination of the HOF talking points) you will of course agree that there is no clear VISUAL difference between a HOF and a GIA/AGS Ideal Cut Diamond.

In fact, if the two of us were sitting around looking at three beautiful ideal cuts under the lamp and I asked you to tell me which one was the AGS000, the HOF brand and the "X brand" (all other variables ie: size, color, clarity being equal) you know very well that you wouldn't readily know which one was the HOF from amongst three equally beautiful ideals.

If you disagree, then you are being less than honest, in which case we just agree to disagree...;-) wink wink wink..just for you!..;-)

I'll let others chime in here....

Judah,

I will be completely honest. Yes I am in the trade, and yes sell HOF, however I also stock many many AGS000 diamonds, loose and set. And yes, when I put them under the light against HOF I am hard pressed to see a difference. But, take them out of the light and it is a different story. In fact, I think HOF looks best in candle light, but thats just me. I think its silly to think that the extra time and care that HOF puts in to its diamonds not only in cut but polish makes no difference. If it didn't then why do they do it. I guess we agree to disagree. Also, I didn't bring up any of the Rolls Royce or NASA aspects of where HOF developed its own technology. I am not a HOF Nazi(lock step dissemination??), I present the facts of what HOF does differently. Its important to define the difference. If I follow your thinking, all ideal cuts are equal, and thats not true. Anyway, Judah, I have enjoyed the debate, which I hope will continue. And please if anyone else does want to chime in, please do, but I think like one other blog stated here, it's just you and me Judah.;-]

Talk to you soon,

Herr Billy

I took my fiance to see a Hearts on Fire ring first; Not ten minutes into the next store and viewing other diamonds by the very "in" designers, he said, "We are going back to get the Hearts on fire ring! I dont even want to see all of the other choices that you have picked out. None can compare!"...I work in an almost all male profession, and not one but every man I work with has said my diamonds were the most gorgeous they had ever seen. One gal with a brand new ring said that mine made hers look dirty. Hype or reality? I'll tell you that people I dont know have commented on the amazing brilliance of my ring and I have never seen anything so lovely! I have many amazing pieces of jewelery and I know that all of my diamonds will be HOF from now on!!!

Hello, for those of you that are planning to buy a HOF, just do it. they are great. My wife got 3 and miself ogt one. (her engagement ring and our wedding bands). Paid about 13K for them all platinum with 18k yellow gold. You won regret.!! Thanks,