Thanks for above info. I was seriously considering purchasing such a diamond ring. Now I will investigate further.

Can you recommend any sites that I could check for super ideal cut diamonds at good prices

John,

Sure, and thanks for asking!

3 great websites to check out are www.diamondtalk.com, www.pricescope.com, and www.diamondreview.com.

These websites are open diamond discussion groups in cyberspace, that are accessed by thousands of consumers and industry experts.

You will get honest and accurate information there.

With just a bit of homework you can find some really reputable companies that sell Super-Ideal cut diamond which are of better quality and brilliance than the Hearts & Fire brand, with much more information to back up the rhetoric...AND AT SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER PRICES.

I have nothing against the Hearts on Fire Diamond brand. These are indeed very nice stones. They are simply not worth the money, marketing, and hype, when there are more brilliant and better cut diamonds out there for much less money.

I wish you the best of luck!

Judah

Not just the "romantic fluff"? Are you kidding? What are diamonds if not romantic. It's amazing how much people in the business suck the romance...the symbolism...the meaning out of diamonds. Wanna' know who's in it for the buck? It's the people who try to "quantify" a diamond.

Please, tell me how many times you've sat with Glenn Rothman and his wife Susan...the founder's of the company. Did he start it to make money? Of course...that's business. Did he tap into the reality of why people buy diamonds in the first place? You bet. And that's why they deserve the success they achieved. (They also happen to be very nice, sincere people.)

I'm in "the business" and we sell Hearts On Fire Diamonds and they are worth every penny. Not just because they are visually stunning...but because of the choices Hearts On Fire makes from the mine to the jewelers showcase. Always top shelf. Always. Never, ever, ever deviate. (And I'm not just talking about the proportions and polish and everything else folks in "the trade" keep running to. I mean EVERYTHING...from the presentation boxes...the designs...and mostly the people at Hearts On Fire.)

I'm not even sure why I'm writing. I buy regular goods from people who bash Hearts On Fire at every turn. And...it's all about the money with them. (Who do you work for Judah?) Always...it's the money. Just once I'd like them to say, "Our diamonds will make her feel like the most important woman on earth. Why? Because...(place compelling realities here.)" Won't happen though. I've been at it long enough to know that it's much easier to argue crown angles and symmetry.

Lastly...quit talking about the money investment...hype...marketing...etc. You make it sound like Hearts On Fire is different than any other company working for a profit. It is part of every business model...it's a choice...and REAL products stand up to the investment. (REAL meaning it delivers on the promise. Not just rhetoric...but delivers year after year, after year, after year. If it didn't...they wouldn't have much money to put into marketing now would they?)

Something tells me that "Excel Diamonds" has an investment in this website. Is it part of some marketing scheme? Are you putting money into marketing efforts? Does that money come from profits on the diamonds you sell? Of course. Is it wrong? No. It's entirely ethical and expected.

In the end...diamonds are purchased as a symbol and expression from one person to another. They speak. This is merely an opinion from someone on the inside who wishes not to ruffle feathers...but to defend a company and a brand that takes the high road...and delivers a diamond that is worth MORE than what people pay. You can argue all you want about that...but I've seen it on the faces of people that buy them. They are happy. And so are we. Seems like a nice deal to me.

AK

PS--Why do so many diamond houses feel the need to label their diamonds "Super Ideal" anyway? No need to answer...mostly rhetorical. It just bugs me. Does such a diamond command a higher price than an Ideal Cut? It's like when jewelers used to use the AAA, AA, A color grading scale. I can see it now:

Jeweler A: "Mine is an Ideal Cut."


Website B: "Our's are Super Ideal Cut!" (Please certificate to prove it. First spend hours researching so you'll know that our proof is trustworthy.)


Website C: "Our's is actually a Super Ideal Plus!" (Please see our online demonstration that proves our claim. Oh yeah...don't believe everything you read.)

And so on. (Don't even get me started about buying online. I doubt we'll have many readers anyway, Judah. Something tells me it's just you and me.) Hope I didn't come off too strong. Good natured debate and all that...have a nice night.

Andy,

You did not "come on too strong" at all.

I appreciate and respect your lengthy and compelling posting.

A few comments and corrections might be in order though, just so that you know we are not arguing here:

1. Nobody is "bashing" Hearts on Fire. Indeed their success is a testament to their thriving business model. In a separate blog, I made it very clear that Hearts on Fire diamonds are beautiful and that their incredibly high prices are not too high for those who are willing to pay the premium for these stones. Entry is here: http://www.diamondvues.com/2007/02/are_hearts_on_fire_diamonds_wo.html

2. I was simply pointing to the well documented fact that there are ideal cut diamonds being sold on the market that are just as beautiful (and some times even more beautiful and more precisely cut) as any Hearts on Fire branded diamond FOR A FRACTION OF THE COST of a HOF stone.

You know this as well as I do, and so does any consumer who bothers to do a little bit of research.

3. Does that mean that someone who knows this and still opts for a Hearts on Fire diamond has been 'ripped off'?

Of course not!

G-d knows that there is a tremendous relationship between emotional/psychological and practical/rational considerations when making a purchase of this magnitude.

This is not a loaf of bread or a bottle of milk the consumer is buying...and many people will still opt for the psychological/emotional over the practical/rational.

This is completely subjective and personal and there is no bad decision.

Finally, I agree that selling Hearts on Fire diamonds is a 'good deal'.

You client is happy with the diamond....and you are positively thrilled with your HUGE profit margin!!...;-)

Certainly nothing wrong with that and I am happy for you.

Thanks for a great post and I wish you every success and good luck.

Kindest,

Judah

OK...it's been a while. Just had to revisit. Small comment...my Hearts On Fire customer's are not just happy with their HOF diamonds...they are proud, thrilled, excited, thankful...all of it. And these feelings have "legs."

They have legs preisely BECAUSE they are cut by Hearts On Fire.

Some people don't get it...or want it...some do. Neither here nor there. It's a silly debate in the end. Value (and beauty) are in the eye of the beholder. Let them decide...

ak

PS--I'll thank you to lay off the "you are positively thrilled with your HUGE profit margin!!" comments. You don't know me or my business. If you did...you wouldn't write things like that.

Oh...sorry...one more question that was sort of tucked in my first email: Who do you work for? It matters because your opinion will most definitely reflect the realities of your work place. Do you work for Excel Diamonds...or any other diamond house? Niether of us are unbiased...but I think anyone reading this should understand where each side is coming from.
(I haven't researched the site...so you may address this elsewhere...but it looks like you are putting yourself "out there" as some sort of unbiased diamond guru. Are you?)

Andy,

Nobody is debating "value" as perceived by the consumer.

Additionally, as I have mentioned too many times to count at this point, nobody is debating the beauty of Hearts on Fire Diamonds.

I may not know your business Andy, but being in the trade, we are all quite familiar with Hearts on Fire's pricing policies and pricing structure for their Authorized retailers and for their loose diamonds and jewelry.

It is a well known and established FACT, that their diamonds command a HUGE PREMIUM over any similar or better cut quality stone without the name. Somebody is keeping those profits...no??

We are quite transparent re: our "day jobs."

Our connection to Excel is well established here and elsewhere.

This blog is exactly what it was intended to be; namely a pulse on the diamond and jewelry marketplace.

Nobody is disparaging the Hearts on Fire diamond brand.....EXCEPT to simply point out some well known and established facts re: its pricing in relation to similar and/or better cut quality diamonds.

I am not going to make this point again.

This is blog worthy material related to our industry just like anything else we post to this venue. That is our "bias". Namely; to post information of substance and interest related to all things diamonds and jewelry.

We spread love to many companies selling diamonds and jewelry with tributes and articles. We also talk about trends and fashion ideas related to precious metals and our marketplace. We cover watches, pens, and other luxury items....and yes, we are experts with over 40 years in the diamond and jewelry trade.

Again, I wish you all the best in your business etc.

Regards,

Anyone know how I could sell my .322 Hearts on Fire diamond engagement ring??? I bought it for $2,000.00, but I'd like to sell it for around a thousand, maybe... Any suggestions?

Last Christmas my husband presented me with a Hearts on Fire cross pendant. It consisted of 6 diamonds totalling about .5 carats set into 18k white gold and was on a very, very thin chain. It was indeed pretty. Then, I openned the credit card bill and saw that he paid $1900 for it. Not knowing anything about "Hearts on Fire", but knowing the jewelry stote it came from was high end, I figured he spent about $600. When I saw the actual price I took it back. I know I'm terrific. I don't need overpriced jewelry to make me feel good about myself. I think it is a ripoff. They can't give HOF away on eBay for even 50% of retail. In fact I saw the same necklace sell for $700 last month on eBay. I don't know, blame it on the MBA, but I want more than fluff for my buck.

Hi,
I don't know alot about diamonds but what I do know is that I personally have had no better dealings than with the Hearts On Fire team and Rogers Jewelers.
Hearts on Fire doesn't just sell a beautifully cut diamond they sell their word! I would trust Hearts on Fire with my grandchildren! I have several pieces of HOF and I honestly would not want any other diamond or jeweler than Rogers Jewelers. I don't work for either company but I am pleased and proud to say that my husband has very good taste and HOF is toooo be trusted in every aspect of business!!
If you are shopping for a lifetime product (and a diamond is!) Then, HOF is the diamond to buy and Rogers Jewelers is the place to buy it!
Thank You all for reading and I hope this helps someone who is looking to buy a diamond.

Hello: Well there is a lot to say about HOF or about diamonds in general, like the there is a lot of information on cars. Now I got a HOF ring for my fiancé last March form Christian Bernard in VA. It is what we were looking for almost 1 karat,18k Yellow band with the base of platinum, etc. Our wedding is this May so last week we went to the store once again, but this time to place the order for our wedding bands, the matching ones. I’m getting 2 for her to complete her ring and mine all are platinum with 18k yellow gold. The total deal it’s about $ 12,000.00, but honestly I got no doubt that it’s worth it. My personal opinion it’s that having a HOF it’s like having a BMW most of the people that have one, will know their value, the personal connection and luxury that you get went you buy one of this two things. Thanks for the opportunity. Best Regards.

I know this is ridiculous to start thinking, searching and comparing for diamond, but more than enything else is if you decided to buy it. I never had a diamond ring in my life and never had an engagement ring especially. Anyway, two weeks ago my boyfriend took me to one of his neighborhood Jewelry Store to look for one and we obviously run into HOF which I did pick out the one I like (look good to my eyes!). We then one week after that stoped by at my neighborhood Jewelry Store to check it out for the different. After seeing and puting the HOF, I don't know I can live with others. I think my boyfriend is already spoil me. I know the big different is fifteen thousand and around four thousand dollars is what I am going to get this Valentine's Day. Maybe I don't get any, who knows? I just wanted to let you know that it's so hard for me to settle down for less since I taste the HOF. In my opinion, if I have to be totally broke for a while with my own money, I still would love to wear one with HOF. Don't laugh on me! :) Wish me luck!!!

It seems that with HOF the additional markup is more peace of mind that you have a good product than quality. I recently had a look at a Leo and HOF, which were both very beautiful but it seemed that the HOF had the edge. Since I now realize that I can find similar quality diamonds but for a cheaper price I would like to know what are other brand can match up with the HOF. Popular opinion is that the a cut above (hearts and arrows) diamond is a good opponent. I would really like to see this diamond with my own eyes but I don't know what physical store has them. I know I can find them on whiteflash but I only truly trust what my eyes see in person. Lastly is it true that the GIA and AGS are the leading grading lab/company with AGS being the front runner?

Chad,
You pose a good question on what rivals HOF for a more realistic price. You should check out Cut By Tolkowsky. It is an ideal cut hearts and arrows diamond from the family that invented the ideal round stone. If you google Marcel Tolkowsky, you will read that he created the formula that the industry uses today. I don't know where you live, but I have seen it before and it looks amazing. I actually purchased a pendant for my wife. The piece of jewelry comes with a certificate of authenticity and tells me what the initial rough diamond weighed before it was polished. I looked at HOF. The stones are exactly the same in appearance and Tolkowsky was MUCH MUCH cheaper and the mounting was much better quality. It is truly an amazing and REAL story as opposed to the HOF gimmick. Hope this helps!

Hello

I'm am planning on purchasing a HOF diamond and I wanted to know how well HOF retains their values. I am still undecided to whether I want to go with a HOF or something else. I'm looking into a 1carat diamond for about 12k , anyone know if these diamonds are negotiable ? The dealer says no.

Ken

Billy,

With all due respect, your arguments here lack in substance and are factually incorrect.

Hearts on Fire's trademarked term of being "The World's Most Perfectly Cut Diamond" DOES NOT PRECLUDE any other company from creating an EQUALLY precise and beautiful diamond at a fraction of the price.

What it does do, is it precludes other companies from being able to USE THE SAME (trademarked) TERM to describe their own diamonds.

This is the plain and simple truth.

Insofar a your other comments; I agree that ultimately a consumer should buy whatever they love.

Thanks for chiming in.

I took my fiance to see a Hearts on Fire ring first; Not ten minutes into the next store and viewing other diamonds by the very "in" designers, he said, "We are going back to get the Hearts on fire ring! I dont even want to see all of the other choices that you have picked out. None can compare!"...I work in an almost all male profession, and not one but every man I work with has said my diamonds were the most gorgeous they had ever seen. One gal with a brand new ring said that mine made hers look dirty. Hype or reality? I'll tell you that people I dont know have commented on the amazing brilliance of my ring and I have never seen anything so lovely! I have many amazing pieces of jewelery and I know that all of my diamonds will be HOF from now on!!!

Hello, for those of you that are planning to buy a HOF, just do it. they are great. My wife got 3 and miself ogt one. (her engagement ring and our wedding bands). Paid about 13K for them all platinum with 18k yellow gold. You won regret.!! Thanks,

hi all,

confused: just made decision yesterday to purchase a well-cut diamond; rather than the HOF. the well cut round is brilliant as well.
the HOF is just a little more brilliant. my husband could not see the difference.

well cut wedding band and engagement w/o cener stone, as I am using my own, and the HOF is 3/4K band w/.67 on engagement ring.
price differnce is 2600. it really is not the money.. I see these two to be almost the same,
of course, I like the larger stone one and it is 2600 less.
any thoughts, would appreciate
thnx.
jean

Billy - I would know right away which was an HOF and which one wasn't. Says so right on the stone. ;) And we all know that not all "ideal cuts" are equal. Hardly the case.

Take in point what Jean just said, "the HOF is just a little more brilliant." Read what Colleen wrote, "every man I work with . . .." Plain and simple, brilliance sells. Ask why consumers really do buy diamonds. It's a testament to love. And each love is the best. In turn, they want the best.

A couple came to me one afternoon with $2000. They left with both parents credit cards maxed out and HOF rings. Why? Nothing compares to the consumer. Hell, no comparison to me. When you poll 100 people as to which diamond "looks" better, 99 say HOF. We know the stone isn't naturally better. But it sure as hell looks better. Put an ideal cut and a HOF on 2 women standing in the street. The ideal cut is skipped and all go straight to the HOF. BRILLIANCE SELLS. And well, at that. I commend HOF. I don't care what kind of marketing budget they blow through. Don't need it, anyhow. Just keep cutting those stones the same way they have been, and consumers will keep buying them. Why? because they do a better job of cut anytime of the day.

Please feel free to prove it to me. You can often catch me in TX. If ever you're down in the Lonestar State, bring 2 round 2cts. One HOF. One "super ideal cut". The first woman that walks passed us, we'll let decide. If she doesn't choose the HOF off of plain site (no tools), you sell the HOF to me at the cost of an ideal cut. If she chooses the super ideal cut, I buy it off of you at HOF retail. I don't ever expect to hear from you. Because we both know the outcome. But if you're game, tell me where you are and I'll fly to you. We travel 5 miles in any direction, stop on the street, and ask the first woman that walks by.

I'm finding this thread really interesting. I am not in the market right now (due to poverty). However, if I could choose any new piece of diamond jewelry that I've seen in the past year, it would definitely be a HOF. Maybe I just haven't had the chance to see any other ideal-cut stones.

In any case, let's say I had a lovely HOF ring. Then my current favorite pieces of jewelry that I personally own would be, in this order:

1) My grandmother's wedding set that my mother handed down to me about ten years ago.
2) My husband's grandmother's wedding ring that my mother-in-law gave me about 12 years ago
3) My HOF ring.

I think it really is in what we value most. My grandmothers' rings are lovely -- not nearly so sparkly as HOF, but I will always love them best. Certainly this does not detract from the beauty of the HOF stones.

Hey Marcus,

If you ever get a chance to act on your bet, be sure to let me know. I'll move "Hell and High water" to be the first woman to walk by!

I am trying to sell my Heart on Fire 1.078 carat diamond. But am confused by the thread what to expect as a seek a buyer. Does anyone know a good way for me to sell my HOF diamond?

I always love reading about what others say about Hearts on Fire, "TWMPCD". Good or bad it allows me to know how to overcome objections that may come from people that read the negativity from jewelers that just don't understand the difference.

Thanks for sharpening my skills...

I am getting engaged and my boyfriend and I want me to have a HOF ring. It is interesting what has not been mentioned about the HOF vs. other ideal cut diamonds - the mount styling. HOF mounts are stylish both modern and classic. The second thing not mentioned is the ability for people to access these diamonds. We live in a small community, not a big city like New York or LA, so we don't have access to jewlers that have numerous types of ideal cut diamonds. HOF has done a great job at making the sparkle of a diamond available in communities all over the country. Good luck to all who are looking, and I will enjoy my sparkly finger under candlelight when my boyfriend becomes my fiance. Cheers.

It all comes down to this: either you "get it," or you don't! Those folks that can't appreciate the rarity of distortion free crystals, the fact that they are cut under 100x magnification vs worldwide 10x standard, the wonder of a vibration free polishing wheel...astounding!
There is NOTHING as breathtaking as a Hearts On Fire Diamond!

Oh yes...there is no "premium" on this Diamond, this is what the BEST costs! Inferior diamonds cost less...that's it! Either you "get it," or you don't...

My boyfriend and I are getting engaged, and I've spent a lot of time in jewelry stores comparing GIA-certified Excellent Ideal Cut stones with HOF stones. Today, a jeweler showed me two Hearts & Arrows stones that were GIA-certified to have excellent cut and excellent symmetry. When I looked, they weren't even symmetrical! You could make out the hearts & arrows pattern (which is indeed the same as the HOF pattern), but both the centers of the stones had jagged reflections, like broken shards of glass instead of a symmetrical (think kaleidoscope) pattern.

Maybe it was bad luck and the next Hearts & Arrows diamond I see will actually be comparable to a HOF diamond, but as it stands, I have not yet seen a more beautiful diamond than a HOF. I live in a large city and have gone to quite a few jewelry stores - nothing compares! Someone, please prove me wrong and tell me where to get these ideal-cut Hearts & Arrows diamonds that are comparable to the HOF diamonds without the premium price, because I sure haven't seen any.

Hi Katherine,

Hope I'm not too late to answer your question. I recently got engaged and my boyfriend (no fiance) purchased me a 1.25 ct HOF Dream cut diamond - absolutely stunning! I, too, am quite the jewelry shopper and have tried to find other beautiful diamonds at a lower price. I just kept coming back to HOF! It's true, HOF has become the shoppers comparison to every "other" diamond they come across and that is not just marketing. We're girls, we are superficial, and we know what our diamond budget (roughly) is. And we all want big (diamonds ;-) ). Although we do love the marketing - just give us a reason to get a bigger diamond of the same quality w/o the name but within the budget and we would JUMP at the chance! All C's but Carat being equal - why would we choose name over size if no one would know the difference?!? But... the there is definitely a difference! HOF cuts their diamonds at 100X while others at the industry standard cuts theirs at 10X magnification. Imagine shooting a gun - if you were 10X closer, you'd be 10X more accurate - HOF is 10X more accurate at cutting their diamonds than others - shouldn't it then be more precise? I am a true HOF advocate. I mean, honestly, if we are using HOF as the top of the line comparison to "other" diamonds - why settle for "others" and not go w/ the brand that sets the bar so high?

I've just purchased a HOF stone for my girlfriend's engagement ring. I now consistently look at other engagement rings and I totally see the difference here. The HOF stone is clear, sparkles like no other, and there is a certain confidence people have who wear/purchase them. Maybe there is a polish and cut that is close, but I don't think there is anything that compares to the HOF diamond on a consistent basis. Most people who buy diamonds are not experts, so confidence and visual appeal is the key here. I'm no jewelry expert but I am an expert on reading people. My jeweler sat me down and spent 2 hours educating me on the pros/cons. I found that the HOF story was sound and truly different than the industry standard.

Also, one thing I'd like to add is that there is no sleaziness when it comes to pricing and sales of these HOF stones. I visited several jewelers who said they would offer a price and then talk to the owner who would then "come down" on the price. What kind of crap is that? I went in to my jeweler and they offered me the same price for my HOF stone that any other HOF authorized dealer across the world would be able to offer. No garbage talk, garbage offers, or garbage sales tactics because there was no need for it. I am a VP of Sales and have been in sales for 20 years, so I fully understand what the guy above bashing HOF is trying to do. Trying to keep his industry in a position where the consumer never really knows what they get, what to look for, or how much something is really worth because you have 3 or more certification companies, all conflicting, and all that crap. Then he tries to back-pedal and say that in no way is he trying to undermine the quality of HOF. HOF is a threat to you, obviously, or you wouldn't be on this blog. HOF is the real deal and sets a high standard, something that you who don't sell them and who try and bash HOF or give subtle low blows to the HOF idea won't like because it threatens your ability to fool the public into buying a crap diamond that nobody else wanted for probably a higher profit margin than what these HOF dealers are making. HOF regulates the price, so it cuts throught the crap of "coming down" on price. It is a standard, something I like when making a major purchase like this. If I paid $500 more for assurance that I had top notch people, machinery, and other equipment assuring that my stone is as close to perfect as possible, then so be it.

For every genius concept, there are lesser companies/sales people who will try to undermine because that is the only way that they can make any money. They feel threatened.

If you are not fortunate enough to be an HOF dealer, then don't bash those dealers who are fortunate enough to sell a product like this. Go try and fool some people today and wheel and deal. I don't wheel and deal for my large investments. This diamond that I'm about to give will be on my future wife's finger for the rest of her life, and it is a symbol of my eternal love for her. How is that not romantic, and why would I not want to purchase a product from a company that fully recognizes that? I won't apologize here or ever for spending a little more to assure that I have the best quality. Yes, I did get a bag of marketing goodies and the like. I appreciated it, to be quite honest. Your "paying for the HOF marketing program " claim holds no water until you can prove that your diamonds are consistently equal in quality to HOF, year-after-year, diamond-after-diamond. Go sell a used car or vaccum.

My fiance and I recently picked out my engagement ring together. Neither of us had ever heard of Hearts on Fire, but we were drawn to its diamond case once we walked into the store. The staff did speak passionately about the brand, but we chose to go with HOF because their diamonds stood out to us most. Although I did find diamonds with higher clarity, color, and larger carat size on Blue Nile, I was not able to find something that had the same crisp hearts&arrows pattern of the HOF for my budget. I am sure you can find comparable diamonds to HOF out there, for a fraction of the cost, for those who have the time and patience to hunt for a deal, but I just wanted to focus on being engaged with a beautiful ring :D! To me, HOF offers consistency in exceptional quality and, yes, peace of mind. It all comes down to what you percieve as value.

Years ago, my father was a diamond dealer in the diamond district in Manhattan... so I learned at a young age how to identify a quality stone.

He has told me, since the HOF diamond cut came on the scene, that he simply cannot argue that the brilliance of these stones outshines practically most all other stones in similar ideal cuts. And so it really doesn't matter whether two stones look identical on paper, and one costs $5k and the other $7k... if the $7k has more brilliance, it wins out. Maybe it's this intangible, yet very real quality of the HOF stones that keeps people in love with these diamonds.

I recently bought my girlfriend an HOF diamond necklace, after hours of research, trying to see how much bang I could get for my buck... but it ultimately didn't matter, because the HOF stone shone brighter and more brilliant than all of the other stones I looked at.

She is in LOVE with it, and nearly daily people comment on it, making her feel wonderful and admired, constantly...

That, to me, is priceless.

I have been looking at a number of diamonds lately, and am curious about what dollar value everyone out there typically sees for the HOF premium over other ideal+ diamonds? As an example, when I compare a BlueNile signature ideal with equivalent characteristics (according to GIA) to my local HOF authorized dealer, the HOF stone is 3 times more money (~$3000 vs ~$9000). Is this 3x premium normal?
I live in Canada, so the exchange rate might have something to do with it but I'm not sure.
I agree with other bloggers that the HOF is definitely a premium cut, beautiful stone and could more easily justify it if it was 25% more or even 50% more; but 3x more?!?
Is this the norm or is my local jeweler inflating the price even higher than others??

Comments please...